Idea Theft

[Craig Herbertson]

Once when I read a Ray Bradbury story after many years I found a sentence in it that I had used in recent story. It was quite funny. This little segment of writing just appeared ten years later, obviously buried in the back of my brain.

I didn't really worry about this but more recently I had what i thought was brilliant finish for a story. I was constructing the whole thing in my head and doing that writer thing of visualizing at what point I was going to start - after coffee, after the fitba, tomorrow and so. Then I had a sudden doubt and looked in one of the The Black Books of Horror. Sure enough the idea that i thought was original was in fact the central idea in a story by David A. Riley which I had read about two weeks before. If I'd carried in on it would have been a complete rip off.

Anybody else had this?

[blackabyss]

If you had the idea without having read the story would it still have been a rip off? How many stories have people ripped off without even being aware of the original? Reminds me of the recent Men at Work "Down Under" court case.

[Craig Herbertson]

I don't think so. That does happen Towering Inferno - the film was based on two books published at the same time using the same concept. I had written one story many years ago which was completely similar in concept to another in the black book. I wasn't too worried because their story was far better.

[The Lurker In The Shadows]

It's happened to me a lot, the most obvious one being "Shalt Thou Know My Name?" which, despite being a deliberate MRJ pastiche, ended up having elements of far more of James's stories in it than I'd realised while writing it.

I've also had that horrible simultaneous writing of ideas experience. In 1999 I was on the verge of publishing a series of 'young adult' books all taking place in one town. The initial talk was for a series of 12, but having got myself excited about the thing, I ended up loosely plotting 5 sets of 12, with character arcs and themed series. Then, round about the time I was working on it, I started to watch "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", and week by week found myself having to cross out idea after idea. I wanted one of my regulars to develop witchy powers and perhaps realise she's a lesbian, Willow becomes a witch and a lesbian, I wanted my lead girl to develop a romantic entanglement with a former villain, Buffy hooks up with Spike, I wanted to end the whole thing with our assembled heroes walking into hell and the town reduced to a smoking crater, etc, etc. It went from annoying to amusing along the way, I have to say.

The series never happened, through various factors, though certain non-Buffied ideas and characters have since returned in the stuff I currently write, so nothing's really gone to waste.

[Craig Herbertson]

Glad its not just me. It's frustrating on the one hand but on the other I suppose it shows you were up to the mark with the ideas. Same in the music business with melodies and lyrics - often expensive mistakes made there

[che2000]

In one sense it's less to do with the idea than what you do with it (as many fine writers including Michael Moorcock and Neil Gaiman have said in the past) after all, there have been many, many sword-swinging barbarian heroes in the past, but not all of them are necessarily Conan. Similarly (and fashionably given the recent and seemingly constant stream of legal action against JK Rowling) not every boy-wizard is Harry Potter or indeed every story of space-faring adventure is The Lensman or every story of alien invasion is The War of the Worlds.

The problem occurs, I think, when you lift characters and situations wholesale - not that I am suggesting for a moment than anyone here would ever do that - but it's more than possible to read a story that lurks in your back brain for years and then emerges as what you think is an original idea., that isn't theft, I reckon, just poor recall.

Of course, the other aspect of this is 'when does influence become plagarism?'. My own writing is influenced by a diverse group of writers (from Clark Ashton Smith to Jack Vance, Philip K Dick to JG Ballard, Raymond Chandler to Jim Thompson, James Herbert to Clive Barker and maybe a couple of dozen more that I could mention without having to think too hard about it) writers that I try to emulate in whatever small way I can. I don't want to be them but I am always happy to recognise and acknowledge their influence.

Or, to get a little Biblical about it: "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:9).

[Craig Herbertson]

In support of ecclesiastics I spent an hour trying to find the Aristotle quote online which reads something like 'nothing new under the sun' and even started looking through the books - sad bastard with no social life. Aristotle definitely said something to this effect about 400BC. Couldn't find it but did find a reference to the Egyptians having said much the same thing. I suspect this latter is down to the Osiris myth as I don't think the Egyptians made much of a fuss about proverbs.

Basically you are indeed correct. Probably every story has essentially been told and we are left to decorate the tales with our own interpretations and personalities

[blackabyss]

Or you could just call it a tribute or parody and forget about it. Read Lev Grossman's The Magicians last year and apart from being a load of old tripe it was also a direct rip off of Harry Potter. Group of kids, secret magic university, special magic game, nasty bad man. Of course it had sex and drugs in it so wasn't trying to be Harry Potter but did rip off every one of jakey's ideas..how he never got sued I don't know....